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Current Issue between Japan and Korea/China


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#16 cosmic_avian

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 02:54 PM

dokdo/takeshima is quite an annoying case...at least when you have to read about it and wonder "why can't they just get along?"...

then when you have to read articles after articles of "china's anti-japan rallies spread" and then "china warns anti-japan rallies", etc...it gets bothersome...

and some of the news is pro-china or pro-japan or pro-whatever...which means the "outside" world won't be getting just the news...but personal opinion as well...

#17 krjeami

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:42 PM

You have to understand that Asia isn't just pissed about the the Japanese atrocities that were committed in the past. The conflicts range from dispute over islets to drilling rights in the East Asia Sea. There's tons of reasons.

#18 cosmic_avian

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:46 PM

could you bring up a few examples?...

like...there are the fairly obvious ones that trigger the hate between them...but what more subtle details play a part in the situations?...

#19 saru

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 04:07 PM

It's really complicated. And "is" a hard topic to discuss about.
I just found a article on a random website (this is not answering your question..)

Japan has proposed a number of measures to ease its worsening political relationship with China after another weekend of anti-Japanese protests in some of China's biggest cities.

The foreign ministers of Japan and China met in Beijing last night, but relations remain strained.

Japan repeated its demand for an apology and compensation for the violent protests that have been held in recent weeks across China.

China's Foreign Minister responded that his government has nothing to apologise for.

But Japan has proposed a number of measures to improve relations.

It wants the leaders of both countries to hold talks when they visit Indonesia this week.

It has proposed that a group of Chinese and Japanese experts be set up to examine the countries' historical relationship and it wants to create a youth exchange program.

There has been no response from China to the proposals.


Man.............they both gotta grow up....although some Korean's are angry, i don't see radical demo's in Korea...
Suppose this is the difference of education :huh:

People should face it, it was done and dusted. Face it I got over it, how long are they gonna rally over?! They just want press...Rally all they want its not like Japan to change anything. They should be friends so the East will have better life living together, instead of making it difficult to live next to each other.


Yeh, that's right, but this case, Japan's government was abit careless...(even as a japanese).
But i wonder...............are those Asian countries going to check every history books japan is going to distribute?........ :)

#20 cosmic_avian

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 04:16 PM

ya...there's a number of articles out there that talk about the situation...

China Rejects Japan's Demand for Apology
China warns against Japan rallies
China won't apologize to Japan over protests
China exports overtake Japan
Japan risks China anger over gas
What Chinese textbooks don't say
Japan textbook rarely used

come on...exports and gas for god's sakes...
so many things that stem more of this conflict...

Edited by cosmic_avian, 17 April 2005 - 04:28 PM.


#21 saru

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 07:46 PM

hmm....some of those articles seems to be down..(link)
anyways, thanks. :D

China Rejects Japan's Demand for Apology (couldn't read the article since link didn't load.... :P )

What the heck............rejects apology....how much more money do they want.
This is like a child nagging the mother for more pocket money...

Edited by saru, 17 April 2005 - 07:47 PM.


#22 krjeami

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 06:11 AM

You know, saru, it's almost as if everything that is said in this thread just kind of ricochets off of you. It almost seems like you don't care to learn more about what's going on.
You seem to have a lot of nationalism.

You're also misinterpretting the title you posted. Japan demanded an apology from China. Isn't that funny? :lol: Actually, I think it's ridiculous.

#23 Sigh

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 08:13 AM

If the guy that resembles richard gear just give an apology to Korea and China, then im pretty sure that most of the anger between the 3 countries will die down. Even though the current protests are about boycotting japan from joining the UN.... What annoys me about it, is that the guy (the guy that resembles richard gear cuz i totally forgot his name) looks as if he shows no resent to what the country has done towards China and Korea during the past war times. Not to mention rewriting Japanese history books to cover up what they did? wtf... Thats like Nazi Germany rewriting their history and saying WW2 never happened, and im pretty sure if that did happen alot of people would be pissed off.


Edit: Just to add one more thing.....

Chinese egging other chinese just because they drive a japanese car is very stupid.

Edited by Sigh, 18 April 2005 - 10:03 AM.


#24 krjeami

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 09:33 AM

:lol: You're thinking of Prime Minister Koizumi, and I agree.
Japan's failure to apologize for its war crimes provides cover for Korea and others to obscure their own past. :lol:

Edited by krjeami, 18 April 2005 - 09:48 AM.


#25 Strawberries513

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 11:52 AM

im kind of on both sides here. my great uncle was tortured to death by japanese in WW2. id like to see the japanese apoligize to everyone they've hurt. i also believe that the islets are korean. and that the textbooks in japan need to be truthful, not predjudiced. but the flag burning and anti japan rallys is a bit much...

#26 cosmic_avian

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:20 PM

hmm....some of those articles seems to be down..(link)
anyways, thanks. ^_^

China Rejects Japan's Demand for Apology (couldn't read the article since link didn't load.... ^_^ )

What the heck............rejects apology....how much more money do they want.
This is like a child nagging the mother for more pocket money...

View Post


hmm...good thing i posted it on my forum...

China Rejects Japan's Demand for Apology

45 minutes ago Top Stories - AP
By JOE McDONALD, Associated Press Writer

BEIJING - China on Sunday rebuffed Tokyo's demands for an apology after sometimes violent anti-Japanese demonstrations, while new protests took place in several cities over perceived efforts by Japan to gloss over its wartime history and to gain a permanent U.N. Security Council seat.

Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing instead pointed a finger at Tokyo for the heightened tensions, which have been fueled by anger over Japan's wartime aggression and anxieties about Tokyo's military and diplomatic ambitions.

"The Chinese government has never done anything that wronged the Japanese people," Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing told his visiting Japanese counterpart.

Li said Japan, instead, was to blame for "a series of things that have hurt the feelings of the Chinese people" over issues such as relations with rival Taiwan and "the subject of history" — a reference to new Japanese history textbooks that critics say minimize Tokyo's World War II-era atrocities.

Many Chinese believe Japan has never truly shown remorse for its prewar invasion of China.

Japanese Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura appealed to Li to protect his country's diplomats and citizens. Tokyo denounced Saturday's violence in Shanghai, where police stood by as 20,000 rioters — some shouting "Kill the Japanese!" — threw stones, eggs and plastic bottles and broke windows at the Japanese Consulate and damaged restaurants and cars.

"I wish the Chinese government would sincerely handle this matter under international regulations," Machimura said, apparently referring to treaties obligating Beijing to protect diplomatic missions.

Japanese public broadcaster NHK quoted Machimura as saying Sunday in Tokyo that he would warn Beijing that relations, "including on the economic front, could decline to a serious state."

Relations between the Asian powerhouses also have soured amid disagreements over Taiwan, Japan's bid to join China as a permanent member of the powerful Security Council and gas resources in disputed seas.

Earlier this year, Japan and the United States appealed in a joint statement for a peaceful resolution of Taiwan's future status. Tokyo had sought to avoid direct involvement in the dispute over the self-ruled territory, which split from the communist mainland in 1949.

China's legislature last month passed a law authorizing the use of force if Taiwan moves toward formal independence.

In the southern cities of Shenzhen and Guangzhou, thousands of protesters called for a boycott of Japanese goods, a Japanese diplomat said. Smaller, peaceful rallies were held in nearby Dongguan and Zhuhai and in Chengdu in the west.

In Shenyang in the northeast, about 1,000 protesters marched to the Japanese Consulate but were kept away by police. The crowd threw stones but did not break windows, said consulate official Shoji Dai. The protest ended in about 90 minutes, he said.

In Shenzhen, two groups — one with up to 10,000 people — marched past a Japanese-owned Jusco department store calling for a boycott of Japanese goods, said Chiharu Tsuruoka, Japan's vice consul general in Guangzhou.

Another 500 protesters were outside another Jusco branch in Guangzhou, Tsuruoka said.

Earlier Sunday, police tried to block a planned protest in Guangzhou, shooing people away from a stadium where a march was to start. Police stood guard outside Japan's Guangzhou Consulate.

Some have suggested that the Chinese government, which wields tight control over its population, permitted earlier protests to undermine Tokyo's Security Council campaign. Beijing regards Tokyo as a rival for regional dominance and is unlikely to want to give up its status as the only Asian government with a permanent seat and veto power on the Security Council.

But Beijing last week called for calm, apparently afraid of causing more damage to relations with Tokyo or encouraging others to take to the streets to demonstrate against corruption or demand political reforms.

The Communist Party newspaper People's Daily called in a front-page editorial Sunday for the public to "maintain social stability."

It did not mention the protests but said "frictions and problems of various kinds ... can only be settled in an orderly manner by abiding by the law and with a sober mind."

Japan's Trade Minister Shoichi Nakagawa warned the violence would hurt China's reputation and economy. The Chinese Ministry of Commerce says Japan has $47.9 billion invested in China.

"People around the world are wondering whether it's all right to pursue economic activity (in China)," Nakagawa was quoted as saying by Japan's Kyodo News agency.

On Sunday, the Japanese consulate in Shanghai, China's commercial capital, was ringed by hundreds of police, some armed with shields, but there was no sign of new protests. The consulate's walls were splattered blue and black from paint bombs.

Last week, protesters also smashed windows at the Japanese Embassy in Beijing.

___

Associated Press reporters Natalie Obiko Pearson in Tokyo and Min Lee in Hong Kong contributed to this report.


this is also interesting:

Posted Image

Chinese policemen run to an anti-Japanese rally at Guangzhou's Tin Ho Stadium. China refused to offer an apology to Japan even as tens of thousands of Chinese demonstrators hit the streets in fresh anti-Japanese protests across the nation.(AFP)

Posted Image

Chinese soldiers guard the Japanese consulate in Shanghai, a day after a violent anti-Japanese demonstration. China refused to offer an apology to Japan even as tens of thousands of Chinese demonstrators hit the streets in fresh anti-Japanese protests across the nation.(AFP/Liu Jin)

Posted Image

Protestors stage a protest in front of a Japanese department store in Shenzhen. China refused to offer an apology to Japan even as tens of thousands of Chinese demonstrators hit the streets in fresh anti-Japanese protests across the nation.(AFP)

Posted Image

Chinese policemen block the street in front of the Japanese consulate in Shanghai, April 17, 2005. In the third weekend of violent protests, thousands of Chinese marched on Saturday to Japan's consulate in Shanghai, smashing windows with rocks and pelting it with paint bombs and attacking Japanese restaurants along the way. The Chinese are furious at a revised Japanese school textbook they say whitewashes atrocities during Japan's 1931-45 occupation of China and at Tokyo's bid for a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council. Photo by Claro Cortes Iv/Reuters

Posted Image

An elderly man raises his fist at an anti-Japan protest in Hong Kong Sunday. About 5,000 marched to denounce Japanese wartime atrocities, echoing similar protests in mainland China. (AP/Lo Sai-hung)

Posted Image

Protesters march through a Hong Kong street to denounce Japanese wartime atrocities Sunday, April 17, 2005. About 5,000 protested, echoing similar demonstrations in mainland China. The banners read, 'Down with Japanese militaris.' (AP Photo/Xinhua, Wu Xiaochu)

Posted Image

Chinese policemen sit outside the Japanese consulate in Shanghai, April 17, 2005. In the third weekend of violent protests, thousands of Chinese marched on Saturday to Japan's consulate in Shanghai, smashing windows with rocks and pelting it with paint bombs and attacking Japanese restaurants along the way. The Chinese are furious at a revised Japanese school textbook they say whitewashes atrocities during Japan's 1931-45 occupation of China and at Tokyo's bid for a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council. REUTERS/Claro Cortes IV

Posted Image

Protesters scuffles with Chinese police officers during a anti-Japan protest near a Japanese department store in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen Sunday, April 17, 2005. Japan's foreign minister arrived in Beijing Sunday to deliver a protest over violent anti-Japanese rallies, as Chinese police allowed new demonstrations over Tokyo's wartime past and its bid for a permanent U.N. Security Council seat. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)

Posted Image

Protesters scuffles with Chinese police officers during an anti-Japan protest near a Japanese department store in the southern China city of Shenzhen Sunday, April 17, 2005. Japan's foreign minister arrived in Beijing Sunday to deliver a protest over violent anti-Japanese rallies, as Chinese police allowed new demonstrations over Tokyo's wartime past and its bid for a permanent U.N. Security Council seat. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)

#27 saru

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:41 PM

thanks for the articles and the pic's.
I found many updated news on the net, but not the kind of older one's.

You know, saru, it's almost as if everything that is said in this thread just kind of ricochets off of you. It almost seems like you don't care to learn more about what's going on.
You seem to have a lot of nationalism.

You're also misinterpretting the title you posted. Japan demanded an apology from China. Isn't that funny?  Actually, I think it's ridiculous.


Well, whats wrong with having an straight thoughts? This is how "i" think it is.
Yes, i do care to learn more about it, but read the news, it's all about these crazy people smashing windows and bashing japanese just because their from Japan or it's a product of Japan or something, same in Korea, everything is the same.


Lol, yah, i may have english problems and copy paste problem's, i apologize for mistitling the thingo "Japan demanded an apology from China".
In that case, i don't think is is so stupid, you may think of me as an hard headed National person, but the Chinese government has been doing "NOTHING" for the first couple of days of the demo, and yeh, demo's are legal, but they were just over the limit which got into illegal actions but still no serious actions were taken.
Many Chinese and Japanese civilians has suffered from this ( shops, injury..) and the Chinese government has the responsiblity to make sure these stuff is under control. But rather than apologies to Japan, they should apologies to those normal civilians who suffered.

If the guy that resembles richard gear just give an apology to Korea and China

hahah got me laugh'n for a moment, richard gears the guy from "Shall We Dance" eh?

#28 cosmic_avian

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:00 PM

im kind of on both sides here. my great uncle was tortured to death by japanese in WW2. id like to see the japanese apoligize to everyone they've hurt. i also believe that the islets are korean. and that the textbooks in japan need to be truthful, not predjudiced. but the flag burning and anti japan rallys is a bit much...

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apologizing for the people they hurt in the past isn't going to solve anything...
and it's not really the entire of japan that's against china/korea...heck, some of the people don't even know where Dokdo is o.O...it's mainly the government that's involved...

china's textbooks aren't as truthful either...they tend to leave out things and make it pro-china...many countries tend to alter teachings so their citizens will become pro-whatever...

http://edition.cnn.c...n.ap/index.html

What Chinese textbooks don't say

SHANGHAI, China (AP) -- Some things you won't find in Chinese history textbooks: the 1989 democracy movement, the millions who died in a famine caused by misguided communist policies or China's military attacks on India and Vietnam.

As China criticizes Japan for new textbooks that critics say minimize wartime abuses like the Japanese military forcing Asian women into sexual slavery, Beijing's own schoolbooks have significant omissions about the communist system's own history and relations with its neighbors.

"With rising Chinese nationalism, the efforts to rewrite history, to reinterpret history according to the demands of nationalism have become a major national pastime," said Maochun Yu, a history professor at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland.

Experts say China's textbooks are written to heighten a sense of national victimhood and glorify the Communist Party that seized power in a 1949 revolution and lashes out at any threat to its rule.

The books describe those who died fighting Japan and other outsiders as having "gloriously sacrificed" themselves for China.

Propaganda paintings reproduced in schoolbooks show Chinese struggling against foreign invaders -- poses imitated by protesters who threw rocks at the Japanese Embassy in Beijing over the weekend during violent anti-Japanese demonstrations in several Chinese cities.

An eighth-grade history book used in Shanghai, China's most cosmopolitan city, repeatedly refers to Japanese by an insulting phrase that roughly translates as "hollywood bandits."

The book focuses on Japanese atrocities and repeats China's claim that 35 million Chinese died or were injured during their 1937-45 war.

"Wherever the Japanese army went, they burned, killed, stole and plundered," the book says. "There was no wickedness they didn't commit."

Omissions of major events appear aimed at shoring up China's image of itself as a non-aggressor, especially since the 1949 revolution.

The books don't mention the brief but bloody 1962 border war with India that broke out when Chinese troops attacked Indian positions to enforce territorial claims.

There is nothing on the 1979 war when Chinese troops attacked Vietnam. The assault was ordered to punish Hanoi for ousting the murderous Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia, which was an ally of Beijing.

Also missing:


The 1989 crackdown on democracy demonstrations, when Chinese troops killed hundreds and possibly thousands of unarmed protesters.


The estimated 30 million Chinese who starved to death during the 1958-61 "Great Leap Forward," revolutionary leader Mao Zedong's attempt to speed up China's farm and factory output through mass collectivization.

Textbooks gloss over ally North Korea's invasion of South Korea at the start of the 1950-53 Korean War, a conflict that drew in troops from the United States and other countries on the side of the South and China's army in support of the North.

The texts say only that "civil war broke out," without mentioning how it started. America is portrayed as an invader that forced Beijing to intervene by threatening Chinese territory.

A seventh-grade text also accuses the U.S. military of using biological weapons during the Korean War, repeating a claim made by China, North Korea and the former Soviet Union during the Cold War but never proven.

While Japan's distortions of its history appear driven by a reluctance to accept shame, China's are aimed at preserving communist rule, said Sin-ming Shaw, a China scholar at Oxford University in England.

"Not owning up is a calculated political policy," Shaw said.


the islets should be korean territory...but i've heard some koreans just yell out "독도는 우리땅!!!" to support their belief o.O...

#29 krjeami

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 04:39 PM

apologizing for the people they hurt in the past isn't going to solve anything...
and it's not really the entire of japan that's against china/korea...heck, some of the people don't even know where Dokdo is o.O...it's mainly the government that's involved...

china's textbooks aren't as truthful either...they tend to leave out things and make it pro-china...many countries tend to alter teachings so their citizens will become pro-whatever...

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I disagree. Like I stated in a previous post, Japan's lack of issuing apologies has led it's neighbors to obscure their own pasts. I guess it's difficult for you to try and see it from another perspective. If I was kidnapped from my family and raped multiple times each day, I would want an apology at the least.
No one said that Japan was against Korea/China. In fact, it's basically the other way around. This is because the Japanese government is composed of a bunch of greedy, selfish bastards (IMO :lol:). You're right, most Japanese could care less about Dokdo, because Dokdo was never Japanese territory. "Takeshima Day" was created on the intent of raising awareness of the islets (as Japanese territory, though they are not).

I won't comment on the Chinese textbooks, as I'm pretty ignorant on the subject. However, reading over the article, I can say that there is a pretty distinct difference between the referenced Chinese textbook distortions and the Japanese textbook distortions. The difference should be pretty obvious :wub:

the islets should be korean territory...but i've heard some koreans just yell out "독도는 우리땅!!!" to support their belief o.O...

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And..? Isn't the conjunction 'but' usually followed by a contrasting clause?

#30 cosmic_avian

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 04:45 PM

^ i don't know..
that's what i see o.O...

but didn't japan apologize to china already before?...

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/1586040.stm
http://english.peopl...1009_81819.html

china's now got their country-wide anti-japanese rally petitions and all...
some images: anti-japanese rally

i would post them here...but there are too many...

Edited by cosmic_avian, 18 April 2005 - 04:55 PM.





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