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Why do u believe in god or why dont u?(Christian)


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#1 fluker

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:10 PM

Well at one point in my life I was going to church but I don't belive in him. Why? you ask? I got a couple of reasons

As it say in the bible that god created us with a purpose and he give us a path that we go through. Have you ever heard about babies that were born then die or those babies the were born premature then die?
So what is the purpose for that? God created everything he just created them and let them die when they are just born into the world. This god is pretty cruel.
Then goes my next thing read this verse from the bible

...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3)
David says in Psalms 51:5, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.


For those who doesnt know what it means I will tell you. When you born into the world you have sin as it say "and in sin my mother conceived me" and "except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of god" that means if you belive in jesus chirst then you will be and go to heaven.
So these baby just born then die and sinned and have no chance to believe in jesus because they don't understand anything. So God just create them and send them back to hell. :D

My other reasons
God create the universe in 7days. Well what about dinosaurs with carbon dating that say dinosaur were million of years on earth before we even existed but that is only you believe in the science evolution. And even if carbon dating is wrong and humans and dinosaur were from the same era humans would not survie against them unless all the dinosaur were only using their sharp teeth to eat vegetables. ^_^

The other thing is when god create us humans we are the only ones can seperate right from wrong because adam and eve ate the friut from garden of eden. So that means we are the only intellegence Specie in the whole universe and we are alone. I pretty much doubt that since there is more stars then there is sand on earth. So isn't that just a bit waste of space. ^_^

And that is why I don't belive in god or jesus.
So what are your thoughts now?

Edited by fluker, 18 April 2005 - 12:11 PM.


#2 ptoor

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:31 PM

Okay, let's get things started shall we.

The purpose and path of life is there for us, but it the free-will that has been given to us that we choose our own destiny to reach the path that has been laid out before us. So if you were born and killed before accepting Christ and your Lord and Saviour, then that's not really your fault for dying. It was from the free-will of another person that took your life. God doesn't go around slaying people no matter how bad they are.

As for the exisitance of dinosaurs and to have it mix with the creation of man, you need to keep in mind that the Garden of Eden was a utopia and away from everything else. There are no records of where this Garden was located, but it could've very well been secluded from the presence of Dinosaurs.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with Adam and Eve. They ate the forbidden fruit because they were lured in by Satan. Humans are the more superior species on earth as we were created in His own self-image. Nothing will be more superior than that.

As for being a believer or non-believer; I'm a believer. When you get to the point where no explanations can be given, but only a feeling is felt, that you know you truly believe. Same goes with love and other questionable things humans contemplate throughout their lives.

#3 Ace

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:33 PM

The bible is not meant to be taken literally. Even though it is The Word of God, it is still subject to personal interpretation.

My take on faith is really simple: Faith is faith. You either believe or you don't. Everyone has their own personal reasons for believing. Some of them believe because they need something to believe in and they cannot find it in the physical and empirical realm. Some just conform to the masses (no pun intended) e.g. "I think I'll go to church because everyone else is going". Others believe, (and I know some people like this), and have faith because they simply want to attain quick, self-gratification ("I need some money...I love you God!").

I'm not going to judge those reasons above as to what's right and what's wrong. I think it's just a personal choice.

Myself, I'm at a crossroads as to how faithful I actually I am. I still believe in God though and I don't think that that will ever change. Just because there's some things I can't comprehend or can't explain doesn't mean that there is no higher being above me.

#4 JustLovely

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:34 PM

Actually I agree with you 110%. I don't believe in 'God' or 'Jesus Christ'. And many of my reasons are the same as you. It is the laws of science that leads me to believe there is not God or what not. So I see where you are coming from and you have a good valid point. My friend questioned me about evolution...but I don't know about that yet. I think it is possible that humans evolved from monkeys. Why else are we so alike? I just don't think it is possible for there to be this holy one being who watches over you and what not. It's not possible. But that is just my beliefs. I of course respect the people who do believe in God or whatnot because that's what they want to believe and it doesn't affect me.

Also I was never raised with a religious background. My family is Buddhist but my parents never really enforced the beliefs and such, so I never really cared for religion or thought about it much. I believe in science not God. Science is proof of why things are the way they are. They teach us in school of the theories of how the earth formed...yet people believe in God? It doesn't make any sense because they believe in contradicting theories. God was supposed to have 'created' earth am i correct and everything in it? But that is not so according to science and there is more proof with science than with 'god'. There is only a book to 'prove' it was made by god..and that just doesnt cut it for me.


#5 cosmic_avian

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:38 PM

most of the words in the bible are actually used figuratively...which means they don't mean exactly what you see...that's why you have to think about it harder and need more concentration...

it's not a textbook...

i'll try to find some articles that might help you...

you don't know why God created something...nor are you able to actually give the right answer...

with the universe...how would you know that it is a waste of space?...
it is called space for a reason...if the whole universe was incased in a glass box, something would be wrong...

actually, forget that...it's too hard to understand because to explain the universe is far too complicated for any humans to understand...

this is somewhat related to the topic...

Catechism of the Catholic Church
III. "THE WORLD WAS CREATED FOR THE GLORY OF GOD"


293 Scripture and Tradition never cease to teach and celebrate this fundamental truth: "The world was made for the glory of God." 134 St. Bonaventure explains that God created all things "not to increase his glory, but to show it forth and to communicate it", 135 for God has no other reason for creating than his love and goodness: "Creatures came into existence when the key of love opened his hand." 136 The First Vatican Council explains:

This one, true God, of his own goodness and "almighty power", not for increasing his own beatitude, nor for attaining his perfection, but in order to manifest this perfection through the benefits which he bestows on creatures, with absolute freedom of counsel "and from the beginning of time, made out of nothing both orders of creatures, the spiritual and the corporeal. . ." 137

294 The glory of God consists in the realization of this manifestation and communication of his goodness, for which the world was created.



#6 ptoor

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:44 PM

Actually I agree with you 110%. I don't believe in 'God' or 'Jesus Christ'. And many of my reasons are the same as you. It is the laws of science that leads me to believe there is not God or what not. So I see where you are coming from and you have a good valid point. My friend questioned me about evolution...but I don't know about that yet. I think it is possible that humans evolved from monkeys. Why else are we so alike? I just don't think it is possible for there to be this holy one being who watches over you and what not. It's not possible. But that is just my beliefs. I of course respect the people who do believe in God or whatnot because that's what they want to believe and it doesn't affect me.

Also I was never raised with a religious background. My family is Buddhist but my parents never really enforced the beliefs and such, so I never really cared for religion or thought about it much. I believe in science not God. Science is proof of why things are the way they are. They teach us in school of the theories of how the earth formed...yet people believe in God? It doesn't make any sense because they believe in contradicting theories. God was supposed to have 'created' earth am i correct and everything in it? But that is not so according to science and there is more proof with science than with 'god'. There is only a book to 'prove' it was made by god..and that just doesnt cut it for me.

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Firstly, I'd like to tackle the whole evolution thing. If you say we resmble monkeys, therefore we evolved from them, wouldn't it be fair to say it the other way around as well? Monkeys evolved from humans, cause we look so similar.
Science cannot explain everything, and neither can Christians. Science has 'proof' and Christians have 'faith'.
Faith is as powerful as people comprehend love. It's unconditional, everlasting, eternal. When you truly love something, your actions is enough proof to prove that it is real. Look at a devote Christian, and you will understand the love of God.
There are a lot of things that science cannot grasp, yet scientists still choose to believe it's possible and these things exist. That's pretty hypocritical no?

#7 Mirai Pan-chan

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:46 PM

I don't believe, because there is no actual real PROOF. Where is the proof that the bible is truthful?

Also, this 'God' seems rather ... biased - so if I don't believe, it means that I'm going to go to 'Hell'? :\ show us yourself, 'God' ... if you're truly real, why don't you show yourself? Others who believe will say 'You're not worthy' or some other crap like that .. no offence ... so 'God' believes he's to good to grace mankind with his presence?

even if there was real proof that 'God' existed, I'd believe that he was real, but not the almighty creator of us all ...


#8 cosmic_avian

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:49 PM

Firstly, I'd like to tackle the whole evolution thing. If you say we resmble monkeys, therefore we evolved from them, wouldn't it be fair to say it the other way around as well? Monkeys evolved from humans, cause we look so similar.
Science cannot explain everything, and neither can Christians. Science has 'proof' and Christians have 'faith'.
Faith is as powerful as people comprehend love. It's unconditional, everlasting, eternal. When you truly love something, your actions is enough proof to prove that it is real. Look at a devote Christian, and you will understand the love of God.
There are a lot of things that science cannot grasp, yet scientists still choose to believe it's possible and these things exist. That's pretty hypocritical no?

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science can only try to get closer to the truth...but it will never explain the truth...
sure, we humans may have evolved from apes, but to become so advanced in terms of civilization and technology...evolution can't be that powerful...just look at the animals o.O...

what is proof?...is proof true knowledge?...or is proof just something that is written down on paper and you have pictures to support your belief?...

christians and other religious groups have their faith in their higher beings and all...but that isn't very different from science...science strives to uncover the unknown, while religion explains things through their beliefs...

christians say God exists...science says God doesn't...science says ESP exists...but there is no way for them to prove it...so what then?...maybe the impossible really isn't that impossible...

I don't believe, because there is no actual real PROOF.  Where is the proof that the bible is truthful?

Also, this 'God' seems rather ... biased - so if I don't believe, it means that I'm going to go to 'Hell'? :\ show us yourself, 'God' ... if you're truly real, why don't you show yourself?  Others who believe will say 'You're not worthy' or some other crap like that .. no offence ... so 'God' believes he's to good to grace mankind with his presence?

even if there was real proof that 'God' existed, I'd believe that he was real, but not the almighty creator of us all ...

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you don't go to hell if you don't believe in God...
you have to understand that there are people out there that interpret the scriptures the wrong way...and then begin to think "all christians will go to heaven, and all non-christians will go to hell"...then what about the other religious sects?...heck, judaism came from one of adam and eve's children...so will they go to hell?...

you've been introduced to the religion by the wrong people...

#9 celebear

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:02 PM

let me correct few things

sure, we humans may have evolved from apes,

We didn't evolve from apes. Even evolutionists are not saying that. What they say is that humans and apes probably had common ancestor.


christians say God exists...science says God doesn't

science doesn't say god doesn't exist. There just isn't no scientifical proof.


I can't see why science should be in contradiction with faith. I've been reading biological psychology lately and i have to say that i'm really exited about what happens in human brains and what we know and don't yet know about it. And in the same time philosophists are not even sure whether the whole world exists. Can you really be sure that there is anything outside your mind?

#10 cosmic_avian

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:04 PM

there are also the people that believe creationism led to evolution...
but there shouldn't really be any point in trying to find out what the truth is...because most likely you're not going to succeed very quickly...

#11 celebear

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:05 PM

^for me the thing is that if there is god and he is almighty then he might have created everything to look like there were universe for billions of years before it were created. How can we know?

#12 cosmic_avian

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:09 PM

^for me the thing is that if there is god and he is almighty then he might have created everything to look like there were universe for billions of years before it were created. How can we know?

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we wouldn't even know whether there are multiple universes or not...
i found this other article about the big bang theory...

Big Bang - Is it a Big Deal?

It all began with the Big Bang, scientists have been telling us for years. And so that expansive beginning of the universe must have been very special, one would assume.

Not so, according to two physicists at the University of Chicago.

"We like to say that the Big Bang is nothing special in the history of our universe," said Sean Carroll, an assistant professor in physics at the University of Chicago.

The Big Bang could be a normal event in the natural evolution of the universe that will happen repeatedly over incredibly vast time scales as the universe expands, empties out and cools off, say Carroll and graduate student Jennifer Chen.

The duo wondered why time flows in only one direction, and whether the Big Bang — a theory that has not been proven — arose from an energy fluctuation in empty space that conforms to the known laws of physics.

Other researchers have long suggested that the universe is cyclic, and that the Big Bang was the beginning of our universe as we know it, but not the beginning of the larger Universe that encompasses everything, including that which we can never see because it's beyond our cosmic bubble.

The arrow of time

The question about the arrow of time has vexed physicists for a century because "for the most part, the fundamental laws of physics don't distinguish between past and future. They're time-symmetric," Carroll says.

Time is closely related to the concept of entropy, a measure of disorder in the universe. Entropy naturally increases with time, physicist Ludwig Boltzmann suggested a century ago.

As Carroll puts it: "You can turn an egg into an omelet, but not an omelet into an egg."

Nevertheless, the mystery remains as to why entropy was low in the universe to begin with. The difficulty of that question has long bothered scientists, who most often simply leave it as a puzzle to answer in the future. Previous researchers have approached the whole shebang with the assumption that entropy in the universe is finite. Carroll and Chen take the opposite approach.

"We're postulating that the entropy of the universe is infinite," Chen said in a statement issued Tuesday. "It could always increase."

The inflationary universe

To successfully explain why the universe looks as it does today, both approaches must accommodate a process called inflation, which is an extension of the Big Bang theory. According to inflation, the universe underwent a period of very rapid and massive expansion in a fraction of a second after the Big Bang.

But there's a problem with that scenario. To begin inflation, the universe would have encompassed a microscopically tiny patch in an extremely unlikely configuration, not what scientists would expect from a randomly chosen initial condition.

Carroll and Chen argue that a generic initial condition is actually likely to resemble cold, empty space — not an obviously favorable starting point for the onset of inflation.

In a universe of finite entropy, some scientists have proposed that a random fluctuation could trigger inflation. This, however, would require the molecules of the universe to fluctuate from a high-entropy state into one of low entropy — a statistical long shot.

"The conditions necessary for inflation are not that easy to start," Carroll said. "There's an argument that it's easier just to have our universe appear from a random fluctuation than to have inflation begin from a random fluctuation."

What is dark energy?

Carroll and Chen's scenario of infinite entropy is inspired by a finding in 1998 that the universe will expand forever because of a mysterious force scientists have come to call "dark energy." Under these conditions, the natural configuration of the universe is one that is almost empty.

"In our current universe, the entropy is growing and the universe is expanding and becoming emptier," Carroll said.

But even empty space has faint traces of energy that fluctuate on the subatomic scale. As suggested previously by Jaume Garriga of Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona and Alexander Vilenkin of Tufts University, these fluctuations can generate their own big bangs in tiny areas of the universe, widely separated in time and space. Carroll and Chen extend this idea in dramatic fashion, suggesting that inflation could start "in reverse" in the distant past of our universe, so that time could appear to run backwards (from our perspective) to observers far in our past.

Regardless of the direction they run in, the new universes created in these big bangs will continue the process of increasing entropy. In this never-ending cycle, the universe never achieves equilibrium. If it did achieve equilibrium, nothing would ever happen. There would be no arrow of time.

"There's no state you can go to that is maximal entropy. You can always increase the entropy more by creating a new universe and allowing it to expand and cool off," Carroll explained.

© 2005 Space.com. All rights reserved.


Edited by cosmic_avian, 18 April 2005 - 01:09 PM.


#13 Xyphion

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:11 PM

I don't believe, because there is no actual real PROOF.  Where is the proof that the bible is truthful?

Also, this 'God' seems rather ... biased - so if I don't believe, it means that I'm going to go to 'Hell'? :\ show us yourself, 'God' ... if you're truly real, why don't you show yourself?  Others who believe will say 'You're not worthy' or some other crap like that .. no offence ... so 'God' believes he's to good to grace mankind with his presence?

even if there was real proof that 'God' existed, I'd believe that he was real, but not the almighty creator of us all ...

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Why would God have to prove himself to you? If God made it known to everyone that he existed through the means of sight, surely you would believe. But then what need would faith be? God created us and he wants us to love him. I am sure he is capable of creating drones that would automatically worship him from the get go. However, that would not be REAL love but rather love through the means force. That's why we were given free-will so that people could choose to love him instead. Try to imagine if you were in his shoes. Being loved by someone through choice instead of obligation would mean THAT much more. That's why we have faith.

I'm still a new Christian and I know I have much to learn. I grew up with an atheistic background but I've found my peace. Christianity is much more than what we can put into words, let alone comprehend. But if anyone were to sit down with a Christian and examine his/her life, I'm sure you'd be able to sense something that you won't find from your average Joe, much like Ptoor said.. And by that I'm not saying that Christians are better than others.

Edited by Xyphion, 18 April 2005 - 01:25 PM.


#14 cosmic_avian

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:21 PM

^cool...new christian...i've only been christian for 7 months ^_^...

i heard a joke about christianity...i think it goes like this:

why doesn't God just show up in your face?

because you'll be dead when that happens


or maybe it was more humorous ^_^...

God is a good God...He gives us free-will...that's why we can choose to believe in Him or not...

actually, i'll just get to the point: God may not be the creator, but to those that don't believe in God being the creator, what created everything?...what created the big bang?...what created the creatures that soon evolved into humans or other species?...

#15 Mikenyhk

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 01:40 PM

Im not a believer of any religion BUT I studied them for curiousity... i dont want to be ignorant...I do take the good out of all these religion...they kinda influenced me ..

there are few main reasons y ppl believe in GOD.. they just cant see this world without one..who created humans...it cant be bacteria transforming..cant be..they wont believe...

I'm not saying religion is wrong but if you believe it.. u might be right...or there are much more to this world than what we know...




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