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#16 Artius

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 10:37 PM

Another thing being, if America goes to war it almost automatically means Canada follows. At first we protested the Iraq idea, but we went eventually. Which leads to the death of four Canadian soldiers by an American bomb. I am in no way saying the Americans purposefully killed our soldiers, just that, obviously, they weren't being very careful. Is it really worth killing four allies just to kill some foes?


Canada was against Iraq, and still is. We have no troops in Iraq. I think your thinking about Afghanistan.

#17 Sticky

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 11:27 PM

Also thats a BS comment, because oil is not that big on his agenda. Just a dumb reason people came up to say why he went into Iraq,


No it isn't. Name ONE country the US has not been involved with to gain resources.

My thoughts exactly. :D

#18 kaminokami2086

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 11:32 PM

No it isn't. Name ONE country the US has not been involved with to gain resources.

My thoughts exactly. :D


Vietnam, there was no interest in resources just the spread of communism. Seems you exact thoughts are a bit off. :D Also I said oil is not a big agenda as some believe, i did not say it was not an agenda.

Edited by kaminokami2086, 06 February 2006 - 11:33 PM.


#19 Sticky

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 11:34 PM

Vietnam, there was no interest in resources just the spread of communism. Seems you exact thoughts are a bit off. :D Also I said oil is not a big agenda as some believe, i did not say it was not an agenda.



Ok, explain to me why they did not let Ho Chi Minh create his democratic society. (Rubber)

You have NO base for your reasoning.

#20 kaminokami2086

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 12:12 AM

Ok, explain to me why they did not let Ho Chi Minh create his democratic society. (Rubber)

You have NO base for your reasoning.


Truman also hoped that assisting the French in Vietnam would help to shore up the developed, non-Communist nations, whose fates were in surprising ways tied to the preservation of Vietnam and, given the domino theory, all of Southeast Asia. Free world dominion over the region would provide markets for Japan, rebuilding with American help after the Pacific War. U.S. involvement in Vietnam reassured the British, who linked their postwar recovery to the revival of the rubber and tin industries in their colony of Malaya, one of Vietnam's neighbors. And with U.S. aid, the French could concentrate on economic recovery at home, and could hope ultimately to recall their Indochina officer corps to oversee the rearmament of West Germany, a Cold War measure deemed essential by the Americans. These ambitions formed a second set of reasons why the United States became involved in Vietnam.


As you see, they wanted to revive the rubber economy not jack Vietnam of rubber. Again the most important reason for the US was communism. Ho Chi Minh wanted to change the Vietnamese short lived democratic government to communism. So wth are you talking about? Again I laugh at you for your "NO base" for my reasoning. :lol:

#21 Sticky

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 06:58 AM

As you see, they wanted to revive the rubber economy not jack Vietnam of rubber. Again the most important reason for the US was communism. Ho Chi Minh wanted to change the Vietnamese short lived democratic government to communism. So wth are you talking about? Again I laugh at you for your "NO base" for my reasoning. :)

You need to re-check your info. Spread of Communism? Slippery slope theory.....the Domino Theory is FAR from being true. I laugh at you for being lied to by your teachers and history books.

Ho Chi Minh just wanted to nationalize his country's resources to benenfit his people. What's wrong with that???


Vietnamese short lived democratic government to communism.

That is so much BS. How can you have ANY democratic government if the guy who was their, "Democratic" leader was so corrupt? More like a "short lived" dictatorship than anything else.


btw, I think I am getting off-topic. Should make another thread on this.

Edited by Sticky, 07 February 2006 - 07:09 AM.


#22 kaminokami2086

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 12:07 PM

You need to re-check your info. Spread of Communism? Slippery slope theory.....the Domino Theory is FAR from being true. I laugh at you for being lied to by your teachers and history books.

Ho Chi Minh just wanted to nationalize his country's resources to benenfit his people. What's wrong with that???
That is so much BS. How can you have ANY democratic government if the guy who was their, "Democratic" leader was so corrupt? More like a "short lived" dictatorship than anything else.
btw, I think I am getting off-topic. Should make another thread on this.


Yeah I realize we're getting off topic too. But my info comes from my dad who fought in the Vietnam War as a Vietnamese who I'm sure had first hand experience with US/Vietnamese propaganda. I never said there was anything wrong with Ho Chi Minh wanting to nationalize his government. But he did want to create a communist country. And as much BS as the domino theory of communism is, it is what a lot of the American public thought at that time. A lot of politics was revolved around the Red Scare which gave the US perfect excuse to enter Vietnam. That is what they chose as the main reason except for their ship being blown up. Even if it is lies, as you believe, the US never took any resources from Vietnam which I believe was our main argument to begin with. And instead of continuing off topic. If you wish to continue just PM me.

#23 fumoffu0

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 10:11 PM

i dont give a @#$% who runs our country as long as im living <----(does not include being tortured alive or somethin)

-sorry that wasnt exactly serious-

Ho Chi Minh just wanted to nationalize his country's resources to benenfit his people. What's wrong with that???

i think ur absolutely right sticky. Back then, the US thought that if they let communism stay, that it'll spead to others. All Ho Chi Minh wanted was to unite north and south viet together to unify the vietnamese ppl. His intentions were never to spead it. U havent look at both sides kaminokami.

Even though ho chi minh was communist, in my opinion i think he is considered as a great man.

Edited by fumoffu0, 07 February 2006 - 10:25 PM.


#24 kaminokami2086

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 10:43 PM

i dont give a @#$% who runs our country as long as im living <----(does not include being tortured alive or somethin)

-sorry that wasnt exactly serious-
i think ur absolutely right sticky. Back then, the US thought that if they let communism stay, that it'll spead to others. All Ho Chi Minh wanted was to unite north and south viet together to unify the vietnamese ppl. His intentions were never to spead it. U havent look at both sides kaminokami.

Even though ho chi minh was communist, in my opinion i think he is considered as a great man.


LOL, I haven't looked at both sides? First, read my whole post before you comment on what I have said.

I never said there was anything wrong with Ho Chi Minh wanting to nationalize his government

Also you guys do know that the South didn't want to unite with the North, right? In other words Ho Chi Minh was being an opressor. So if that's right to you than you should love Bush.

#25 kuraudo

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 11:00 PM

Theres a lot of stuff about Bush I don't feel like getting into, but since people wish not to see the truth, I must intervene on the subjects above:

Ho chi Minh a hero? His philosophy causes murder.

My Family knew exactly what they were fighting, it was not for resources, but against Communist rule:

During the war, many of my relatives were killed on the street for disobeying communist's police, and then some were killed in battle.
Even after the war, family members are murdered without good reason. Don't tell me he's a hero, or you are just an enemy. Recently, My Godparent's relatives were shot in public because they were "rich" thats the exact words on the PA system. Vietnam is a piece of junk poo when i visited it back in 1997, surely they would be closer to south Korea's economy had it not been under control by filthy murderers.

Just a few years ago, a long, old friend of the family defamed himself on national American tv news in a riot, a person whom I used to trust. His mind went awol while he went to communism after being sent to a "brainwashing clinic" back in Nam.
NO I wont say who it is, I am completely ashamed for myself and my family for knowing this person!

My dad and many of my uncle's knew what they were fighting for. It was simple. To rid the spread of communism due to the North invasion for complete control over the south. It was not much about resources, than it was for communism. In vietnam, and In the USA, everyone through my 26 years of life agree that its the spread of communism

Edited by kuraudo, 07 February 2006 - 11:09 PM.


#26 Sticky

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 11:18 PM

LOL, I haven't looked at both sides? First, read my whole post before you comment on what I have said. Also you guys do know that the South didn't want to unite with the North, right? In other words Ho Chi Minh was being an opressor. So if that's right to you than you should love Bush.

are you delusional??? DO you know who the Vietcong were???? they disguised themselves as US supporters.

And they were able to kill US soldiers easily cause of it. NO ONE LIKED THE DEMOCRATIC LEADER IN VIETNAM.

He was a tyrant!! Ho Chi Minh had practically 90% of the population supporting him.

Ho Chi Minh = Emilio Aguinaldo

Heroes in my eyes. :notworthy:

You seriously gotta see past propaganda.



Just a few years ago, a long, old friend of the family defamed himself on national American tv news in a riot, a person whom I used to trust. His mind went awol while he went to communism after being sent to a "brainwashing clinic" back in Nam.
NO I wont say who it is, I am completely ashamed for myself and my family for knowing this person

Ho Chi Minh even told Nixon that he would be relentless. Do anything to get the US out of their country, it worked. Wouldn't you want a foreigner out of your country???
it's none of the US's gawddamn business.

Edited by Sticky, 07 February 2006 - 11:33 PM.


#27 kaminokami2086

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 11:33 PM

Kuraudo, thank you and I know where your coming from. Most of the Vietnamese population are in the US because of Ho Chi Minh.

Sticky, dude, get your facts straight. You said the Vietcong killed many US soldiers and they also killed many Vietnmaese citizens, hell my father and uncle were tortured by the Vietcong. But guess what the Vietcong backed Ho Chi Minh and communism, so like I said get your facts straight. Two Vietnamese people have told you their experiences as factual. Where are you from did you experience it? No, so YOU need to see past propaganda. Thank you dad is all like I said before this is too off topic so if you want to further argue, pm me or start a new thread. But I can't possibly see how your right when the facts are laid out in front of you. And the funny thing is that Kuraudo posted right before you did, did you bother reading it, its very insightful, especially for your ignorance.

Oh btw this statement:

He was a tyrant!! Ho Chi Minh had practically 90% of the population supporting him.

complete BS

#28 fumoffu0

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 03:20 PM

it could be that u 2 vietnamese individuals have a grudge on ho chi minh bcuz members of ur families were casualties of war. maybe thats blinding your point of views. i can understand that ppl think hitler was a tyrant, but ho chi minh is not. U expect to have a war without ppl dying? theres alwayz going to be many ppl dying in the war, i think thats assumed, and members of ur family happened to be victims. dont hold a grudge on ho chi minh jux cuz ur raged that they died. and i wont forget about those who died for no reason. dont blame ho chi minh for those deaths, blame the ppl who were abusing their authority to carry out such actions whenever they please. alotta ppl do what their not supposed to do.

i have alotta viet friends and have talked about this kinda thing wit them along time ago. they didnt say they liked ho chi minh but didnt say they hated him either. but i know that they have respect for him and do admit that they consider him a great man becuz of his skill and prowess and the ability to fight and win against both SV and the US, not becuz hes communist, and most of them are from or originate from south vietnam too.

plus, dont be an ass guyz. we're all nice bjj members, so act like it. just say our opinions and respect what other ppl think. it aint cool

Edited by fumoffu0, 08 February 2006 - 03:43 PM.


#29 boa_libra_gurl

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 03:30 PM

I dislike Bush, he has made the worst dissisions and he is not smart. I hate that he started a war with Iraq, Afganastan and more. It was cruel and he killed many with that stupid dissision! Well, he wanted oil, thats my opinion, and it made me almost cry when the bomb landed on Bagdad...wat the hell was that? I live in Canada, and im a muslim and it effected my family. I think that Bush is the most NON-Inteligent person in the world. And im sorry if i affend people but its my judgement and its my opinion, so yeah.

#30 kaminokami2086

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 07:51 PM

i can understand that ppl think hitler was a tyrant, but ho chi minh is not. U expect to have a war without ppl dying? theres alwayz going to be many ppl dying in the war, i think thats assumed, and members of ur family happened to be victims. dont hold a grudge on ho chi minh jux cuz ur raged that they died.


Okay you realize Ho Chi Minh formed the Vietcong right? You do know who the Vietcong were(are) don't you? They are the one that killed thousands of Vietnamese merely for wanting democracy. They also killed thousands of Christians for being Christians. And they didn't just kill them out right they tortured them, such as burrying them in the sand with only there head sticking out in torturing heat and than pouring leeches to suck their blood out to kill them. Not a tyrant, he's the kind of person to think of this sick twisted things. Hell, i consider him near to Hitler's level. That is persecution, that is what a tyrant does. I. So again get your facts straight before you tell me your views. Are you like Sticky who only gets his info from teachers, books, lectures, documentaries too. Go ask some people with experience in the matter. Go back a few decades and ask why the North supported him. It was fear, just like Germany and the Nazis. f you want to further discuss this PM or AIM me. My aim is the same as my sn




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