Why do you think a lot of Americans lack the education and social background to think independently? The worldwide consensus is that America has the best universities in the world.
Also, ever since I learned Hitler's propaganda tactics, I have always distrusted politicians. On post #17, you even pointed out how politicians never keep all of their promises.
Lastly, classified government information is nothing new. The FBI and CIA does it. The Pentagon does it especially on their B-22 bomber.
America may have some of the best universities in the world but that doesn't mean everyone gets into them. Why can't you see that education and the right social upbringing isn't something that's just handed down to people?
By right social upbringing i don't just mean a loving family and a stable financial situation. I mean 'right' as in the appropriate social upbringing that would cultivate open-minded indvidual thinking --which requires a family or community with authoritative figures who exibit these open-minded attributes. Think about how you came about this interest in politics? If you had a different upbringing, in a different environment --would you still have these beliefs?
Many american's know about hitler's propaganda tactics too, but the thing is that alot of them do not associate Hitler with their own president.
Now I'm not saying that the American people are not partially responsible for the Iraq war, but I just disagree with you saying that it was their fault rather than that of George W. Bush. and his party.
George W. Bush and his party manipulated the American public, using psychological techniques to influence their problem solving and decision making abilities. There are many triggers in social psychology that control the very way we think and behave, and by simply producing the right cues for those triggers, people, no matter how intelligent they are, can be manipulated into acting in a particular way.
I'll give you one example of how easy it really is.
In one study that measured this, all psychologists needed to do to the subjects was to use two different analogies in order to change how a subject would react to a hypothetical decision.
The subjects were presented with an analogy of the current (now past) situation of Iraq with World War II where Suddam was compared to Hitler. 'We didn't act quickly enough then, hence WWII, should the US interfere now in the case of Iraq?' (or something like that --I forget the exact wording)
The majority of the subjects of this study (psychology first year students) after being presented with this analogy supported US interference in regards to Iraq.
in Group 2:
Subjects were presented with an analogy that compared the Iraq situation with the Vietnam War, and the majority of subjects were found to be against US interference.
It sounds so simple --but it is SO effective. This technique is found in advertising as well as political propaganda and.it.works.
Another effective way to influence peoples' ability to make unbiased decisions is to create a sense of fear and cultivate 'group think' as opposed to poliarisation, which is another tactic used by the Bush administration. After 9/11 the Bush government took full advantage of the state of fear that America was plunged in. It was 'the middle easterns against us' ---the fear was so great that middle easterners who had lived in America or were even born in America became subject to horrible discrimination (as you probably already know). George Bush's ridiculous "War on Terrorism" fed off the fear of Americans reeling from the 9/11 attacks, promoting discrimination under the guise of 'bringing the country together'. After cultivating such wariness against the Middle East, it was a piece of cake for the government to manipulate the American public into supporting the Iraq War.
Weren't you also terrified by the events of 9/11? I know I was, and I live all the way out in Australia. The footage of the twin towers collapsing was played over and over television --and the horror did not wear off no matter how many times it was replayed.
Imagine how afraid you would be if you actually lived in the U.S.? Even the most rational of people were shaken by it and became easy prey for the Bush administration.
America is home to many of the most brilliant psychologists in the world. I mean pretty much all psychologists go by the APA, the America Psychologists Association. Think of the brilliant minds that George Bush and his administation would have had access to. --Coupled with the chaos caused by 9/11 manipulating the American public would be easier than taking candy from a baby.
How can you still say the it was completely the fault of the American public? How did they even stand a chance?
Yes please explain this I would think that americans had quite a decent education policy. if its so bad that they can think for themselves then whats the difference between them and those mindless suicide bombers who mostly do it cause they belive the words of some crazy extremist leader. if thats the case then america and americans should just keep out of other countries afairs altogether cause u never know when another iraq is gonna happen.
It's not the education policy I'm talking about. It's the access to education in some cases, or influence of cultura education in others. Education doesnt necessarily mean school. You can be educated by parents, television, experiences --so forth. Besides, if you aren't educated in things such as propaganda techniques or psychological manipulation --you could hardly defend yourself from it right?
And to be honest I believe America SHOULD keep its nose out of other countries' affairs. Nobody likes nosy buggers.
I didn't quite understand your second sentence.....
also i must reject the ignorance arguement being put forward. spring sakura ur arguement in general is that the american people in are too ingorant of political issues to make the right choice. this doesnt mean they're not to blame i would place most of the blame on them. if u run over a person in a car and kill them its manslaughter even if you didnt see them.
First of all....I might not be an expert on this topic --but I don't think I'd go as far to say I'm putting forward an ignorant argument. =S
And please, I don't mean to be condescending (honestly, because I know my grammar isn't always at its best either) but...I'm having alot of trouble reading this...capital letters and paragraphs might help...
I wasn't saying that just because Americans were 'ignorant' --which they may not have been necessarily (now that I think about it) --just taken advantage of, that they should be held responsible for the Iraq War.
I was saying the America people shouldnt be held completely responsible for the Iraq War because their choices were unfairly influenced by the manipulation of George W. Bush's administration.
It's not that ignorance = blamelessness. It's just that I believe that if we're going to blame the American public for the war due to their ignorance --then we should also
blame the government for not cultivating a society where people would have access to facilities or environments that would rectify that ignorance.
Or maybe it isn't that the American people were too politically unaware, but rather that they were taken advantage of?
And who would take advantage? The government --so ...then wouldnt you blame the government more than the people anyway?
I was also arguing against legendsofaranna's claim that Americans should be completely politically aware as though it is something that can be so easily attained --because even though it may appear so --it isn't. 'Political awareness' can be easily manipulated by those who have the resources to do it and unless you are equipped with the appropriate resources yourself --you will fall victim to that manipulation.
As to your analogy --if you had been blindfolded whilst driving by someone and unable to remove that blindfold until after you'd realised what you had done --shouldn't that person that blindfolded you also be held accountable for the death of the victim? Who, then, should have the heavier sentence? The driver, or the individual who blindfolded the driver? Would it be right to let the person who blindfolded the driver to go free with no blame whatsoever?
ignorance is not an excuse. you should make yourself aware of such things economic problems isn't a defence people all over the world have economic and social issues but surely they keep a grasp on political issues. most of the political rioting occurs in the poorest countries in the world they surely have it tougher then the american people.
Ignorance isn't an excuse, which is why i do believe that the American people are partially to blame for the Iraq War, but that doesnt mean that they should bear the entire responsibility of it and have George W. Bush and his administration blameless.
Besides, the Americans are paying the price for their support of the Iraq War. Their troops keep dying in Iraq and the families left behind must live with that, Anti-American views have spread around the road --even to other western countries that were previously mainly pro-american. It wasn't so long ago that Australians LOVED Americans (we don't necessarily hate them now thought), but now we have instances where one friend of mine looked down on Americans so much that at the mention of them she curled her lip and said "Americans" in disdain (mind you, that's just one case --I actually have a few American friends that I like just fine).
People in poorer countries are often more blatantly aware of lies and corruption in politics because they are often subjected to blatant oppression. In America however, it's not blatant oppression that occurs but subtle omission of information --harder to pick up, and harder to condemn.
maybe imposing compulsory voting would go a fair way in the USA considering how many people vote its not surprising the ignorance that exists there.
That one flew over my head completely.
[once again, argument somewhat all over the place --really sorry, can't argue coherently these days due to tiredness really --but I have to say I still like it =P]