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It is unfair to blame US government for War in Iraq


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#46 hinachan

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 12:49 AM

The people here who have said that the American people were "force-fed" information about Iraq by Bush need to think about something. Most of the media has a liberal bias; don't try to deny it.

Are you smoking crack? The media is owned by wealthy people/corporations who are conservatives! Fox News is the worst example, but CNN isn't far behind. Even CNN's Headline News features programs by Glenn Beck and Nancy Grace, both of whom are conservatives.

The only place you'll find a liberal bias is on Air America Radio...if you happen to live in one of the few cities where you can listen to it. Compare that to how radio is saturated with the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity--talk radio, alone, is overwhelmingly conservative.

In fact, the only reason the media is turning on Bush now is that even most of the conservatives have turned on him for this failed war in Iraq. The only support Bush has left are the 30% of idiots who think that they're going to be flying up to heaven en masse, stark naked, when the "Rapture" occurs. Aside from that, every sane person in both parties has realized that we were all fed a pile of steaming horse manure by the White House, and the media shoveled it down to the rest of us.

#47 vagabond

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 01:44 AM

The US does not have the biggest military, far from it. Technology wise they are strongest in most areas but not all. And do remember that CNN broadcasted in USA are not the same as CNN International. CNN International are less politicaly based then the US version.

Fox News are actualy fun to watch, not to get correct news but just fun how they twist everything.

#48 legendsofaranna

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 07:37 AM

Technology wise they are strongest in most areas but not all.


So, can you tell me which technology they lack? And for the technology they lack, does it hinder the US military power at all?
Don't forget that during war, information warfare is vital as well. One better not mess with the CIA. No one in the public knows how much the CIA knows due to a myriad of classified information.


Eddie Z, here's the info for the nuclear reactor being built by the Russians:

Iran is developing Arak parallel to its better-known light-water reactor
program, like the one being built with Russian help at Bushehr, which hold its own worries for the West

http://www.haaretz.c...ges/927541.html

#49 vagabond

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 09:17 AM

The US are abit after when it comes to stealth ships, they are after when it comes to a portable ground to air missiles that 3 men can carry behind enemy lines and fire. Also do remember that alot of the gear the US army uses are originaly from another country, like the M249 for example and the M136 AT4. When it comes to radar system they aren't that special since several countries have basicly the same kind of radar. The US needs to, if they gonna face a real opposition, get alot better Tomahawk missiles since they can get shoot down and spoted by radar.

US have though alot more of high tech things to their disposal then most other countries and so far the US haven't really faced a country in recent years that are even close to have good weapon systems. And this was abit off topic.

One thing that it looks people forget, might have missed it among all the long posts, are that the US people in general are very nationalistic. Which can be both good and bad.

#50 kireisnowtenshi

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 11:03 AM

The US does not have the biggest military, far from it. Technology wise they are strongest in most areas but not all. And do remember that CNN broadcasted in USA are not the same as CNN International. CNN International are less politicaly based then the US version.

Fox News are actualy fun to watch, not to get correct news but just fun how they twist everything.



Then who does?

Im very interested in knowing who is ahead of the US when it comes to military power, cause when it all boils down to it America probably protects and destroys more countries than any other military in the world...but I could be wrong.

#51 vagabond

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 11:07 AM

Biggest military doesn't mean the best when it comes to military power. China have a bigger military then the US. Military power isn't counted who have the biggest weapons or most men it is more how you use it and how useful the things are.

Bigger for me means more manpower.

Edited by vagabond, 30 November 2007 - 11:11 AM.


#52 legendsofaranna

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 11:33 AM

The US has a lot of excellent nuclear submarines like the Seawolf and Virginia class submarines. They are hard to detect due to the low noise emission from the nuclear engines.
Also, MANPADS are not really necessary since the US Air Force can more than substitute those to eliminate air threats. Thus, this does not hinder US military power or US air superiority.
If you're talking about SAMs, then the US has its Patriot Missile System.
The M249 is really manufactured by FNH USA, the American subsidiary of FN.
As for the M136 AT4, it is not the only anti-tank missile. The FGM-148 Javelin is manufactured in America and it's much better than the AT4 since it's a hit and forget anti-tank missile.
All the other countries who use the AESA radar are allies of the USA. Even though it is not unique to the USA, the actual system is made in the USA. The other systems outside of the USA are different versions and are usually lower in quality.
If those Tomahawk missiles get shot down, the US can use ARMs in SEAD operations to take down those SAMs.

#53 vagabond

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 11:59 AM

I'm not talking about submarines, I'm talking about ships mainly frigates. And no I don't mean SAM. The US wouldn't have as big superiority in the air if faced with for example a western european country since most have sufficent air protection against the FA-18, F-15, F16 but ofcourse the F22 and B2 would be a very big issue for most.

The M249 are in the ground developed in Belgium, the original version is. FN Minimi are the ground version that the US made changes to so it would fit the US military.

Edit: Lets get back to the issue that's the thread is about :P

Edited by vagabond, 30 November 2007 - 12:02 PM.


#54 legendsofaranna

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 12:11 PM

Why do frigates need stealth when nuclear submarines are around? As for the US facing a western European country, that is next to impossible. And lastly, the US is using the M249, not the Minimi anymore.

The discussion of the US military came out of what Americans need to fear from tiny Iraq. PM me if you do not want to further discuss this in this thread.

Im very interested in knowing who is ahead of the US when it comes to military power


No one and not in the near future.

#55 Rhythum_of_my_heart

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 01:55 PM

Are you smoking crack? The media is owned by wealthy people/corporations who are conservatives! Fox News is the worst example, but CNN isn't far behind. Even CNN's Headline News features programs by Glenn Beck and Nancy Grace, both of whom are conservatives.

The only place you'll find a liberal bias is on Air America Radio...if you happen to live in one of the few cities where you can listen to it. Compare that to how radio is saturated with the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity--talk radio, alone, is overwhelmingly conservative.

In fact, the only reason the media is turning on Bush now is that even most of the conservatives have turned on him for this failed war in Iraq. The only support Bush has left are the 30% of idiots who think that they're going to be flying up to heaven en masse, stark naked, when the "Rapture" occurs. Aside from that, every sane person in both parties has realized that we were all fed a pile of steaming horse manure by the White House, and the media shoveled it down to the rest of us.


Yes, Fox News has become big in the past few years and yes, there are some conservatives in the media. Glenn Beck and Nancy Grace are on CNN Headline News, which is a separate channel from the main CNN which is heavily liberal (ex: the recent scandel with CNN "failing to recognize" the democrat people planted at the republican YouTube debates this past wednesday). And, Glenn Beck just got on tv 2 years ago (not too long ago). Fox News wasn't as popular when the war in Iraq began as it is now.

You forgot NPR which is overwhelming liberal, popular, and can be hear in many places (including iTunes-currently #3, 4, and 5 top podcasts).

Oh, and I guess you forgot to see the video I posted..

#56 legendsofaranna

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 02:55 PM

Oh, and I guess you forgot to see the video I posted..


I saw your video. Thanks for sharing.
I just have a comment for the Iraqi Security Forces. It is a huge improvement but a lot has to be done before they can secure the country by themselves.

#57 Eddie Z

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 07:50 PM

Eddie Z, here's the info for the nuclear reactor being built by the Russians:

http://www.haaretz.c...ges/927541.html


Yes, they did assist in the original reactor, but everything is close to a standstill as the second reactor is under construction. It seems that Russia and the US will re-start the cold war all over again. BTW, If you were to check www. Moscow Times.com,(an Ex-pat paper) in any of it's back issues, you would find out that Putin has been behind the government (re)takeover of all TV and radio stations, as well as Gazprom (Lukoil), and most newspapers. He has shut down most opposition NGOs, political opposition has been supressed, and put disidents in jail. (of course, he does control the Duma). Yes, he is popular, because most Russians don't really have a choice. They only know him as their savior. He did bring their economy around, and Russia now has more billionaires than any other country second to the US. They also have the largest and most dangerous Mafia. He juggeled his way into a probable 3rd term...as Prime Minister with a Pres he already has hand picked. (I have done business in Russia, and have been there many times)
To get back on subject, I think most of us agree that the US is now in disgrace, the people have been mislead, and have a complacent attitude towards a cure for the problems. Most people don't understand the electorial college and how it can turn a popular vote around. The US also likes to put it's nose where it doesn't belong in the sake of freedom, and try to push it's ideals on other countries. I can remember when we were a respected, well liked country. Maybe we should drop the Monroe Doctrine, stop sending money, food and medical assistance to other countries, re-call all our debts that most countries owe us, pull all our troops from every single country in the world, put up a big fence and close the doors. The money saved could feed our poor and give them the medical aid they need and even put a roof over their head. Then, no one would care...(except travel agencys?)

#58 legendsofaranna

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 08:32 PM

Yes, Russia and the US will re-start the Cold War. Actually, in my opinion, it has already started.
Putin does have the ability to take over the media but unless he censors the internet, Russians can always go online for news that aren't controlled. If this is true, do you know what this resembles? Communist China. And so, I think if this is really what's going on in Russia then Russia is heading for communism again.
I think if there wasn't an occupation in Iraq, the Iraqi War would not have been this big of a deal at all. But now, around 2/3th of Americans are against the war because their side is losing and because of the lies.
I don't think the US should stop sending assistance to third world countries. It will generate more terrorism if they do.
I don't think there are many countries who owes debt to the US. The US has transformed from the world's biggest lender to the world's biggest debtor.
Even if the US allows it, I don't think other countries would want the US to pull out troops from their country. Many countries need their occupation to feel secure. They'll dislike the US if they pulled out the troops. Two great examples are South Korea and Japan.

Edited by legendsofaranna, 30 November 2007 - 08:34 PM.


#59 Eddie Z

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 10:27 PM

I was sort of being condecending....it seems everyone is condemning the US in one breath, and wants the aid in another. France is a big example. They hate Americans, but rely on our protection and assistance (BTW, I think they are one of the debtors...Russia being another) The US has a habit of not collecting.
Russia will not go back to communism. Putin has just about flattened the comminist party's ambitions of electing their own canadate. I think a very restricted form of democracy is closer. I would call it commocracy. Just a little stricter than our governments "Big Brother is watching" attitude. Most citizens in Russia cannot afford a computer, and just about every PC in exhistance in the country has an illegal copy of XP. They are sold in the big stores with illegal copies. Now, Gates has made it very hard to use the bad copies, limiting access and disrupting programs. Many other people in Russia don't even have phones, and the only radios are the 4 channel hard wired ones left over from the USSR.(most homes had them for propaganda purposes) So, there is a great possibility that very many Russians will only know what the government tells them. Others lead a very simple life and don't care who is in charge, as long as they can continue on the way they have for centuries...sort of third world.

#60 legendsofaranna

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 07:51 AM

I was sort of being condecending....it seems everyone is condemning the US in one breath , and wants the aid in another.


Finally I hear someone else who does not hate the US. I personally don't hate the US as much as others do. Sure, I criticize them but that does not mean I totally hate them. Many people let the US' faults blind the US' accomplishments. Let's just say that we will be in a much worse situation if it wasn't for the US' accomplishments.
Russia's government is called a Federation and I don't think it's a democracy at all if its media is tightly controlled. Many people in this thread have criticized the US media when in fact it is much better than the media in Russia and China. Everyone should be glad that Americans still have access to uncensored internet and can read my thread.




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