15 replies to this topic

[YourSonnetMyLove]

Guys, I really need help with my mom. She's a 40-ish Chinese woman who has serious mental problems. I've lived with this for about all my life. I am now 22 years old. I would move out if I had the means to but well life doesn't work out so well. She thinks almost everybody is dirty, freaks out when people from the outside come into our home, treats our home like a warehouse, treats her own bedroom like a storage room, sleeps in the living room couch, doesn't allow other people to sit on the couch, etc. If I walked near the area where the other tenants put out trash during trash day, she gets mad at me and tell me to take a shower.

I was so embarrassed of the way she was that I didn't want people to know about her habits. I'm not that normal either, I will admit. I have my own odd habits/preferences but not to the extent of yelling at people for stupid things.

Today she came roaring home over how I stacked some boxes near the entryway so I got angry at her (b/c she's yelling for no reason. I'm stressed about school and other things). She asked me some stupid questions about how the people from the apartment management was standing (b/c they were doing inspections to make sure apartments were clean)so she could wipe down the places. "Did they go to her room? Did they go in the kitchen?" One of the other reasons I'm slightly mad at her is b/c I saw the looks the people had when they saw our apartment. It was like 'Ugh'. It's so embarassing. Mom kept all the freaking boxes from all the appliances she had bought and uses it as furniture. I had to say that we weren't finished cleaning so they could check another day.

The gist of it is that I didn't answer any of her stupid questions. She freaked out, kicked my door then denounced me as her daughter. She gave me that stupid speech again: I did everything for you and you can't even answer a simple question...You're not my daughter anymore...Just do whatever you want, I don't care...blah blah blah...Now I know she's at that age when she has menopause, hot flashes, etc but come on, it has been going on 22+ years.

How do you think I can convince her to get therapy? Because I know she'll be even angrier when I tell her to. Just to clarify, I really love her and admire her for putting up with my horrible dad. He's gone now.

Please don't call her crazy either. I'm really worried one day someone will be extra annoyed with her and do something bad to her as a result.

Edited by YourSonnetMyLove, 06 January 2010 - 06:54 PM.

[mlyap7_boa]

Uhh lemme think...
Actually I believe my mum is also goin through menopause & such but she ain't as serious as your mum but I still had to put up with it for more than 10 years...
I don't think you should/can convince her to undergo therapy, maybe you could get someone whom she'll surely obey to convince her...
Any such person you know of?

You're a really good daughter btw, you have my respect...  

[studmuffin]

Your mother definitely has problems. Which, unfortunately, aren't the kind that therapy can fix. And though you asked people to "please don't call her crazy"- I assure you, she's absolutely barking mad.

What you have been living with for the past 22 years is an ASIAN MOTHER.




Frankly, I don't think there is any way in hell you'll ever be able to fix this "problem". Unless the "problem" carked it. But that would be sad. So, in the meantime, just keep on living the way you always have: you being the way you are, and your mother freaking out and godzillaring at you/everyone. Just deal with it. As the saying goes "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger". She's prepping you for life

[avii_woz_here]

I think she's just...what she is. A mom. :/
Apparently parents are allowed to aggressively implement their supposed 'rights' to be irrationally unreasonable and there's nothing we can do about it. :< Good luck though!

[hinachan]

1. It's not menopause!  Menopause can cause mild mood swings and some physical changes, and that's all.

2. Unfortunately, it's really hard to get someone to go to therapy, because it's only in extreme cases (like Britney Spears) that the person's criminal actions will enable the state to order therapy.

3. I know it's hard, but you need to work on getting out of that situation.  Until you can get a job, do you have any relatives who could take you in, and maybe help you talk to your mom?

4. The big problem is, her mental issues have been around for more than two decades.  Mental illness is like any other disease: The longer it's untreated, the worse it gets.

If I were you, I'd search the internet for one of those anonymous mental-health hotlines, then call and ask what can be done.  Because nobody here has the legal knowledge you need.

And no, she isn't just an "Asian mom", and there's no such thing as a "barking mad" person who can't be helped.  People with mental health issues are HUMAN BEINGS, and they can be of ANY RACE.  Please, before you comment, educate yourself first.  And have a little compassion for your fellow human beings.  Thank you.

Edited by hinachan, 07 January 2010 - 04:56 AM.

[studmuffin]

hinachan, on Jan 7 2010, 11:53 PM, said:

3. I know it's hard, but you need to work on getting out of that situation.  Until you can get a job, do you have any relatives who could take you in, and maybe help you talk to your mom?

You make it sound as though her mother actually tries to kill her. And what is this about, getting relatives to take her in? So because your mother tells you off all the sodding time, you leave her? Yeah, way to be a supportive family.

And recruiting "back-up"? I'm sure it would feel great to be treated like an armed criminal for telling off your own child. Yay let's bring in the negotiators.

hinachan, on Jan 7 2010, 11:53 PM, said:

4. The big problem is, her mental issues have been around for more than two decades.  Mental illness is like any other disease: The longer it's untreated, the worse it gets.

The "untreated" "mental illness" she has (judging from the original post at least) is probably just the stress and pressures of being a mum/mom. Along with a bit of her own fussiness.

hinachan, on Jan 7 2010, 11:53 PM, said:

Because nobody here has the legal knowledge you need.

Oh but I'm sure you do

hinachan, on Jan 7 2010, 11:53 PM, said:

And no, she isn't just an "Asian mom", and there's no such thing as a "barking mad" person who can't be helped.  People with mental health issues are HUMAN BEINGS, and they can be of ANY RACE.  Please, before you comment, educate yourself first.  And have a little compassion for your fellow human beings.  Thank you.

Hm, the terms you quoted look awfully familiar- could they be directed at anyone?

Oh. They're from my post. Silly me



-"Asian mom":The woman is Chinese and has a daughter. "Asian mom" right there. And those tendencies to overreact- "Asian mom".

.....

Actually the freaking out and overreacting might just be a mother thing in general   . The levels just vary from mother to mother I suppose.

Most of the people here probably don't have kids, and I suspect it's impossible to even imagine how hard things can be for parents.


-"Barking mad": Did anyone say that people with mental health issues "ARE NOT" human beings? I think I may have missed the post which said that.


-"Educating" self prior to making comments: If you'll all excuse me for a couple of hours, I'm going to head out to the library to do some extensive research so that my incredibly important posts on an online forum will bag me a Nobel Peace Prize. Obama aint got nothin' on me

brb when I'm done with the thesis guys  

hinachan, on Jan 7 2010, 11:53 PM, said:

And have a little compassion for your fellow human beings.

Get off your high horse, Florence Nightingale.

And this is about having a stress-head parent, not cancer or rape. Are people supposed to be given a big cuddle and a lollipop everytime they have a row with their mother? No wonder my teeth are bad.

hinachan, on Jan 7 2010, 11:53 PM, said:

Thank you.

You're welcome.

[Yabisi]

YourSonnetMyLove, on Jan 6 2010, 09:51 PM, said:

Guys, I really need help with my mom. She's a 40-ish Chinese woman who has serious mental problems. I've lived with this for about all my life. I am now 22 years old. I would move out if I had the means to but well life doesn't work out so well. She thinks almost everybody is dirty, freaks out when people from the outside come into our home, treats our home like a warehouse, treats her own bedroom like a storage room, sleeps in the living room couch, doesn't allow other people to sit on the couch, etc. If I walked near the area where the other tenants put out trash during trash day, she gets mad at me and tell me to take a shower.

That does sound a bit odd...like borderline obsessive compulsive disorder.

The only way it seems that you can find out what the issue is with her is to have her go to the doctor so she can be diagnosed, cause it can be anything from an imbalance of chemicals in her brain, to her just wanting to act like that cause she can, or maybe some traumatic event in her life sparked her odd behavior.

I think it's important for you to heighten your commmunication with her, rather than be afraid to talk to her because of the way she's acting. If she trusts you, or gains trust in you, it could be easier for you to express your concern with her and not get her mad. It's hard for a person to go into therapy because they have to realize that they have a problem, and they have to want to be helped. If it comes to a point where it becomes unbearable for you, see if you can find someone else to stay with.

I pretty much agree with what Hinachan is saying as well, and your best bet is to search on the web about your problem, because you most definitely aren't the only person who has to deal with situations like this. See if you can find support groups around your area as well.

And it doesn't matter if she's Asian or not--anyone of any race can go through this.

Good luck.

[Cori]

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 11:49 AM, said:

You make it sound as though her mother actually tries to kill her. And what is this about, getting relatives to take her in? So because your mother tells you off all the sodding time, you leave her? Yeah, way to be a supportive family.

And recruiting "back-up"? I'm sure it would feel great to be treated like an armed criminal for telling off your own child. Yay let's bring in the negotiators.

The "untreated" "mental illness" she has (judging from the original post at least) is probably just the stress and pressures of being a mum/mom. Along with a bit of her own fussiness.

Oh but I'm sure you do

Hm, the terms you quoted look awfully familiar- could they be directed at anyone?

Oh. They're from my post. Silly me

-"Asian mom":The woman is Chinese and has a daughter. "Asian mom" right there. And those tendencies to overreact- "Asian mom".

.....

Actually the freaking out and overreacting might just be a mother thing in general   . The levels just vary from mother to mother I suppose.

Most of the people here probably don't have kids, and I suspect it's impossible to even imagine how hard things can be for parents.


-"Barking mad": Did anyone say that people with mental health issues "ARE NOT" human beings? I think I may have missed the post which said that.


-"Educating" self prior to making comments: If you'll all excuse me for a couple of hours, I'm going to head out to the library to do some extensive research so that my incredibly important posts on an online forum will bag me a Nobel Peace Prize. Obama aint got nothin' on me

brb when I'm done with the thesis guys  

Get off your high horse, Florence Nightingale.

And this is about having a stress-head parent, not cancer or rape. Are people supposed to be given a big cuddle and a lollipop everytime they have a row with their mother? No wonder my teeth are bad.

You're welcome.

Please be respectful, Although Hinachan did point out the flaws of your post, she also did it in a way to not degrade you (i.e. she didn't call you names, directly quote you, etc.) Although this is not a physcial thing going on in her life, it is mentally stressful and can cause damage along the way. My father is an alcoholic and although he wasn't abusive, I was embarassed to bring friends to my house because of the way he acted while drunk (and he used to drink alcohol like it was water).

---

Like Yabisi said, this seems like a starting case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. If something is not treated about it, it can get worse. She could start not even leaving the house because she might find everything outside to be "dirty" and "gross". She also seems to be developing signs of becoming a hoarder. A hoarder is someone that collects things that they really don't need. See how far hoarding can get. With her not getting rid of boxes and keeping them as furniture, that is a tell-tale sign to me that shes getting possesive of things that really have no value.
This is normal for someone that develops OCD because sometimes being surrounded by there own things, make them feel "safe" in a way.
But, all in all your mom has to WANT to be helped. Making someone go through treatment really wont help them usually. Your mom has to realise that something is out of tune with the way she is handling life. But be there for your mom, I know it's hard but hopefully it will get better, and if it only gets worse even though you tried helping her with her issues, then that is the time to through up your hands, let her live her life the way she wants to, and move out. You didn't give up, you tried to help, but unfortunately she didn't want to take it. Not just one person has to change for this to work, you both do.

[pupluvgurl]

Well I can understand a little about your problem but I'm sure she's not having such huge mental problems. Maybe a little paranoid about somethings and maybe she's really tired. My mom acts alot like that but I don't blame her considering she does so much for her family. Maybe your mom might be going a little overboard but the only way you'll understand is when you become a mother yourself. It's really hard to raise kids...you should see me try to control my sister.

[Spring Sakura]

Warning: I write long responses lol. But it's all constructive!!!

The majority of asian mothers, bound by the culture they've been brought up in, will rarely ever listen to their offspring. And will most likely fly off in a rage if you accuse/suggest/slightly hint that she has any ounce of a mental issue.

Now, from what you say, it may appear that she has OCD, like other people have suggested, but before you call the men in the white coats be aware that unless these obsessions of hers (being overly cleanly) interfere with her daily life, (e.g. If she is cooking and suddenly she notices a bird has flown past and now she has stopped to frantically clean the window, ignoring the stove and cooking etc) it is NOT OCD.

If she just chucks a fit when you come home via the path where people throw out their trash, but does not physically kick you out, or physically try to wash you then and there, then no, she is not Obsessive Compulsive. She's just a little (or maybe VERY VERY) annoying.

The intense need to clean where the men stood and so forth is a little worrying. But the main thing is, when you didn't tell her and after her explosion, was she able to do something else, or did she just scrub everything in the house?

Did she force you to tell her how they stood? Was she more distressed over the possible dirtiness, or was she more upset that you didn't answer her question?

If she was more upset about you, then good news, she's just a very, incredibly, unbelievably fussy Asian mother.
If she was more freaked out about the dirt, then, you may have to realize that she may have  mild form of OCD or anxiety disorder.

NOW, IF, and I say IF she does have a problem, then the normal thing to do is to sit her down and talk to her. BUT, because she is asian, that's gonna be pretty tough. Calmly talking to them, rarely works, as we all know (especially when they're angry and menopausy).
STILL, you can TRY to talk to her and convince that there is something a little bit wrong.

Don't say, "Mom, I think you should know...you're nuts."
Just let her know that she doesn't really have to clean so much, and that people aren't really that dirty. Ease the idea of there being a problem in gently. If the point doesn't get through, sort of up the pressure.

If it escalates to a full on fight, stop, calm yourself down, and if need be apologize and let things cool off.

The point is, if she doesn't want help, or want to change, you can't make her. So if that is the case, then if you can't make her adapt to the world, you can only make your world adapt to her.

If her problem gets any worse, eg. it puts her life in danger THEN it's time to get professional help forced on her.

That is all you can do.

[hinachan]

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

You make it sound as though her mother actually tries to kill her. And what is this about, getting relatives to take her in? So because your mother tells you off all the sodding time, you leave her? Yeah, way to be a supportive family.
And recruiting "back-up"? I'm sure it would feel great to be treated like an armed criminal for telling off your own child. Yay let's bring in the negotiators.

When someone kicks a door then renounces their own offspring, that's a serious problem.  Well-adjusted people don't need to kick things to get their point across; that's the first step toward greater acts of violence.  Verbal abuse, alone, is abuse--it's one thing to chew someone out when they misbehave, but when it's constant and undeserved, it's abuse.  And yes, the child needs help from relatives--if this woman has had mental issues for over 20 years, the mother is suffering as well, and needs help as much as her child(ren).  Google "verbal abuse" and educate yourself, please.

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

The "untreated" "mental illness" she has (judging from the original post at least) is probably just the stress and pressures of being a mum/mom. Along with a bit of her own fussiness.

I've known people with mental illness, who acted like her, and it wasn't "stress" or "fussiness".  Diagnoses ranged from depression to schizophrenia to bipolar disorder, and all these people were helped with medication and therapy, to the point where they can handle stress without verbally abusing people or kicking doors.

When the OP says the mother "thinks almost everybody is dirty, freaks out when people from the outside come into our home," that's screaming obsessive-compulsive disorder, manifesting itself as a fear of germs.  Again, this woman is suffering as much as the child, and both of them need help.  That's why they both need their relatives to get involved, because a 22-year-old isn't able to handle the situation alone.

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

Oh but I'm sure you do

I've had close friends who were lawyers, including one from whom we rented a house for nearly a decade.  So, yeah, talking to these people has helped me learn a lot about the law.  And you...?

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

Hm, the terms you quoted look awfully familiar- could they be directed at anyone?

Oh. They're from my post. Silly me

Well, you were the one expressing a total lack of knowledge, or even compassion.

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

-"Asian mom":The woman is Chinese and has a daughter. "Asian mom" right there. And those tendencies to overreact- "Asian mom".

I've met a lot of Asian moms, and they don't go around freaking out over dirt, kicking doors, etc.  Mental illness is different from a cultural issue.

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

Most of the people here probably don't have kids, and I suspect it's impossible to even imagine how hard things can be for parents.

I'm in my 40's, and although I haven't been able to have kids of my own (=health issues), I have raised cousins, helped out with foster kids, babysat, etc.  If I'd done anything like this "Asian mom", I would have wound up in jail...especially where the foster kids were concerned.

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

-"Barking mad": Did anyone say that people with mental health issues "ARE NOT" human beings? I think I may have missed the post which said that.

No, you conveniently ignored it.  You said, "Your mother definitely has problems. Which, unfortunately, aren't the kind that therapy can fix. And though you asked people to 'please don't call her crazy'- I assure you, she's absolutely barking mad."  A lack of compassion on that level is dehumanizing.  Immediately afterward, you wrote, "What you have been living with for the past 22 years is an ASIAN MOTHER."  So you're saying that all Asian mothers are "barking mad", which is insulting.  If a non-Asian were to say that, it would be (justifiably) denounced as racist.  People with mental illness aren't "barking mad", they're ILL.

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

-"Educating" self prior to making comments: If you'll all excuse me for a couple of hours, I'm going to head out to the library to do some extensive research so that my incredibly important posts on an online forum will bag me a Nobel Peace Prize.

This isn't about posts on a forum.  It's about educating yourself will make you a decent person--something that would help you every day.  Your post was just a manifestation of your lack of education and compassion.

studmuffin, on Jan 7 2010, 10:49 AM, said:

And this is about having a stress-head parent, not cancer or rape. Are people supposed to be given a big cuddle and a lollipop everytime they have a row with their mother? No wonder my teeth are bad.

Rest assured, I've had countless rows with family members.  I'm Irish--Irish families have rows that can't even be registered on the Richter scale.  Compared to Asians, the Irish are unreal; that's why there's a university whose teams are known as "The Fighting Irish", while there are no "Fighting Asians" teams.

There are far more problems than just cancer and rape.  There are people with mental illness who need help (you, yourself, acknowledged in your crass way, that she's "barking mad").  There are adult children like the OP, who are stressed out because they don't have the ability or resources to help someone who's mentally ill.  Mental illness is a very common problem, a major one, and your refusal to face this fact doesn't make it any less of a problem.

Welcome to my ignore list.

@Spring Sakura: I understand your point, but it's important to diagnose and treat OCD before it interferes with daily life.  And there are different forms of OCD, as well.  This woman is getting close to the danger zone, which is why it's really important for other members of the family to be made aware of this.

@RockWithMe192: Thanks for the nice words, and for your input.  You're right, there does seem to be at least a possibility that this mother is developing hoarding tendencies, as well.  All in all, she seems to be suffering, and needs help.

[Spring Sakura]

Because I know I write heck long replies, I have bolded the important messages. And I mean it, these are important point that the original poster should read as should anyone else who wants to freakin play doctor in this thread.

hinachan, on Jan 8 2010, 10:13 PM, said:

@Spring Sakura: I understand your point, but it's important to diagnose and treat OCD before it interferes with daily life.  And there are different forms of OCD, as well.  This woman is getting close to the danger zone, which is why it's really important for other members of the family to be made aware of this.

I hesitate to say whether or not she is getting close to the danger zone, based on the fact that none of us have actually examined her or even met her.

One must always take into account that perhaps this day was just worse than the others. It could very well be a mixture of hormones and an original predisposition to over neatness, plus other external stress factors that produced this particular event of kicking down doors etc.

We must remember that OCD isn't like a cold, you can't just treat it like that *snaps fingers*. The individual must first be diagnosed, and in order to do so, the condition must be so severe as to interfere with her daily life as according to the DSM-IV. Otherwise, it cannot be called OCD, and it is concerning that people keep referring to it as so. Until it is shown that it DOES interfere with her daily life, it is not OCD.

Public awareness these days of mental issues has almost everybody thinking they can diagnose it by looking up symptoms on wiki. You can't.
You can't diagnose it by knowing someone with a similar issue, you can't diagnose it by watching shows on tv, and you can't diagnose it by reading a third person take on a person's behaviour. You must only ever offer possibilities (which are to be open and always acknowledged as ONLY possibilities) and never advise any dramatic/drastic action.

Mental disease is prevalent in almost everyone, differing only in severity, and not all need to be remedied by therapy or medication. There are a gazillion different kinds of mental disease, most of which (especially anxiety related) are so similar in their symptoms but drastically different in their treatment methods. Only a professional should ever, ever EVER diagnose any sort of mental disease. And I don't mean a therapist, I don't mean a psychotherapist, not even a general practitioner. I mean a psychologist or psychiatrist, who is there physically and has examined the subject thoroughly.

Treatment of individuals with mental issues (not disease, as per this case --because we don't know, and we should never ever assume or guess) must also factor in cultural issues.

To alot of asians, the idea of mental ISSUES (let alone, mental disease) is taboo, and many conservative asians will either turn a blind eye to it or overreact, usually defensively, when it is suggested. In asian culture, even Autism at it's highest spectrum is either confused with brain damage, or considered something a child will 'grow out of'.

Given this culture, we should not advise the person in question (this original poster) to immediately assume his/her mother has a mental condition. Extreme fussiness, bordering mental disease, is still just bordering. Telling the whole family she has a problem, or even moving out as hinachan suggested is probably an overreaction and will not help. If she DOES have a problem, she'd feel more abandoned than anything else, which would make her condition even worse.

I don't think she's schizophrenic or even manic depressive going by what you describe, whatever this is, it seems more like some sort of slightly milder anxiety related issue and there is NO DIRECT MEDICATION OR IMMEDIATE THERAPY TREATMENT that can treat it, so don't do anything dramatic, and just take it one step at a time.


There is a difference between being mental, and being mentally ill. And only a professional who has met and examined the person should make a diagnosis.

The safest advice remains the same either way. She can only change if she wants to, whether or not she is mentally ill is irrelevant.

If she doesn't want to change, then all you can do is adapt to her and protect her as much as you can. You can talk to her, you can try and teach her alternatives to her behaviours IF she is willing to listen. You might even try to convince others she might better trust about alternative ways she can act, or tell them to point out she does overreact sometimes.

But if all else fails, all you can do is love her. And that's not so hard, all it is, is accepting someone for who they are --even if it's strange, even if it's dangerous, because you love them. This isn't something you lock her up in a mental institution for, and unfortunately, it can't be helped by therapy until whatever she has is diagnosed --and if she doesn't think she has a problem, then that's that. But, there are plenty more mental issues that are worse than what you describe, more dangerous than what you describe, and you can always take comfort in that.


EDIT: I needed to stress this again, do NOT go jumping to a conclusion that your mother has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. NOBODY HERE is a professional psychologist and even if one is, they have NOT MET HER, or EXAMINED HER, and are therefore NOT QUALIFIED to diagnose her.

[Yabisi]

RockWithMe192, on Jan 7 2010, 03:44 PM, said:

Like Yabisi said, this seems like a starting case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

lol, I definitely didn't say it was a starting case of OCD. I said it sounded like it, but it also sounds like a whole bunch of other mental illnesses like OCPD or BPD or SAD or Agorophobia, etc. Like Spring Sakura said, we don't know the exact situation, we have not the credentials to offer a definite diagnosis, and if we did we would have to actually be able to meet the mother to perform tests and such. What we do know is that the mother's behavior is affecting her child and that her child is really concerned with it...mental illness or not.

Spring Sakura, on Jan 8 2010, 08:08 AM, said:

Because I know I write heck long replies, I have bolded the important messages. And I mean it, these are important point that the original poster should read as should anyone else who wants to freakin play doctor in this thread.

That better not be directed at me either cause I wasn't trying to offer a diagnosis. I said it sounded like OCD, not that it was. And I also said only a doctor would be able to tell if there was anything wrong with the person's mom. I most certainly didn't have to look on wiki for symptoms (why would I even waste time doing that?), I took classes on infectious and mental diseases and based my opinion on my own personal knowledge. Nag people who say "Its definitely this...", "I know it's this...", "Your mom has..." instead of people who are merely putting suggestions out there to help the person with their problem.

Though "abandoning" their mother would have a negative impact, it may also force her mother to make a decision on whether she should get help or whatever. Sometimes things like this have to happen in order for that person to open their eyes and see how their actions are affecting people around them that they love. And before you decide to go all crazy on me, I'm not saying that this person should definitely try this first before anything else, but if they continue to feel like nothing is going to be solved...well...it is an option that is out there, and they are 22 years old and can make that decision themselves. They shouldn't have to feel like they're abandoning their mother upon choosing that choice to leave--it's more like they're preferring to take care of their own well-being first. The topic starter is obviously feeling disturbed by their mother's actions, or else they wouldn't have made a topic about it.

Quote

To alot of asians, the idea of mental ISSUES (let alone, mental disease) is taboo, and many conservative asians will either turn a blind eye to it or overreact, usually defensively, when it is suggested. In asian culture, even Autism at it's highest spectrum is either confused with brain damage, or considered something a child will 'grow out of'.

I'm just curious where you came up with this information; do you have a source or something that I can read about this part of Asian culture?

Saying "You aren't my daughter." is definitely verbal abuse. I know because I went through similar comments when I was younger, and I still feel the bitterness towards the people who put me in that position. No one wants to hear that from someone who supposedly loves them. I would rather up and leave than to sit and hear things like that about me when I did no wrong, and that's what I eventually was forced to do. I feel for people who go through these things, and mentally ill or not, a mother shouldn't say that to her children to make them feel less significant.

Edited by Yabisi, 08 January 2010 - 11:38 AM.

[ach003]

your mother sounds like an intensified version of mine, though my mother was a purger more than a collector...to her nothing is worth anything.  im not going to tell you what problems i think your mother has, but obviously they exist.  and until you have lived on your own, you wont realize just HOW her stress and tendencies really affect you.  you and your mother have obviously been in this situation for a while so my advice is this:  take your mother up on her desire to separate from you.  not necessarily to spite her but because a break from the insanity will do you good.  a friend, family, whoever....and it might be a good idea for you to takl to a counselor or therapist just to share your issues at home, and you might learn alot about why these things happen as well as gain peace of mind for yourself, so you dont guilt yourself for your mom's irrational behavior.  before you address your mom's issues, i think it would be wise to bring yourself to a place where you can have peace of mind.  then address the problems with your mother.  then maybe ask your mom to go talk to your therapist/counselor with you so she doesnt feel like shes in it alone or being picked on.

unless you take care of yourself, you are no good help to your mother...by focusin on your needs first you are not abandoning her, but giving yourself the tools you need to help her through these issues.

my thoughts are with you

[Spring Sakura]

Yabisi, on Jan 9 2010, 04:11 AM, said:

lol, I definitely didn't say it was a starting case of OCD. I said it sounded like it, but it also sounds like a whole bunch of other mental illnesses like OCPD or BPD or SAD or Agorophobia, etc. Like Spring Sakura said, we don't know the exact situation, we have not the credentials to offer a definite diagnosis, and if we did we would have to actually be able to meet the mother to perform tests and such. What we do know is that the mother's behavior is affecting her child and that her child is really concerned with it...mental illness or not.


That better not be directed at me either cause I wasn't trying to offer a diagnosis.

No, it actually wasn't directed at you. lol

Yabisi, on Jan 9 2010, 04:11 AM, said:

I said it sounded like OCD, not that it was. And I also said only a doctor would be able to tell if there was anything wrong with the person's mom. I most certainly didn't have to look on wiki for symptoms (why would I even waste time doing that?), I took classes on infectious and mental diseases and based my opinion on my own personal knowledge. Nag people who say "Its definitely this...", "I know it's this...", "Your mom has..." instead of people who are merely putting suggestions out there to help the person with their problem.

lol, again, not you. I actually noted, in my head admittedly, that your post was one of the ones I was NOT thinking of when I posted my last reply. I'm not sure why you would think it was directed at you, because you didn't make a diagnosis, and said all the 'coulds' and 'maybes' to show that you do, indeed, know about mental disease.

Yabisi, on Jan 9 2010, 04:11 AM, said:

Though "abandoning" their mother would have a negative impact, it may also force her mother to make a decision on whether she should get help or whatever. Sometimes things like this have to happen in order for that person to open their eyes and see how their actions are affecting people around them that they love. And before you decide to go all crazy on me, I'm not saying that this person should definitely try this first before anything else, but if they continue to feel like nothing is going to be solved...well...it is an option that is out there, and they are 22 years old and can make that decision themselves. They shouldn't have to feel like they're abandoning their mother upon choosing that choice to leave--it's more like they're preferring to take care of their own well-being first. The topic starter is obviously feeling disturbed by their mother's actions, or else they wouldn't have made a topic about it.

Very fair.
But I must clarify, I said that them leaving would make the mother feel abandoned. My point was that she should not move out based on the advice we have offered her.
And, more importantly, this isn't a movie. Moving out won't necessarily make the mum go, 'wait, what have I done?! OMG! I do have a problem!' BANG! She's on her way to recovery. If there is even a chance that this action will NOT help, and will antagonize the situation, then no I do not believe that it is the sort of advice to be seriously considered. This is a real person, any advice given should keep that in mind and note that it should NOT be considered solid advice based on the fact that if it falls apart, the person who has to live with it ISN'T the advice giver, or isn't even NEAR the advice giver.
Because we don't have to take responsibility or take the consequences of these suggested actions, we actually are bound to remember that our advice should be taken with a grain of salt, and for the sake of the person in question, should always make that clear. (Which...you did, so again, not you.)

But aside from that slight point, I agree with what you just said. The person IS 22 years old, and CAN make the decision themselves. But it's important for them NOT to take our advice too seriously, based on our happy non qualifications.

As for me going crazy, it can't be helped, I'm nuts all the time.

Yabisi, on Jan 9 2010, 04:11 AM, said:

I'm just curious where you came up with this information; do you have a source or something that I can read about this part of Asian culture?

Saying "You aren't my daughter." is definitely verbal abuse. I know because I went through similar comments when I was younger, and I still feel the bitterness towards the people who put me in that position. No one wants to hear that from someone who supposedly loves them. I would rather up and leave than to sit and hear things like that about me when I did no wrong, and that's what I eventually was forced to do. I feel for people who go through these things, and mentally ill or not, a mother shouldn't say that to her children to make them feel less significant.

Yes I do actually. One, I have a lovely, crazy Asian mother. Two, I have many asian relatives who also have lovely asian mothers. Three, even if you just flip on tv, watch something off TVB you will notice that the phrase 'You're not my daughter!' is commonly used by really, really pissed off Asian mothers.
Along with, "How could you do this to me after all I've done for you."
"I wish I'd never given birth to you!"
"I'll just pretend I never gave birth to you!"
"I don't have a daughter/son!"

They usually say it when our disobedience has been at optimal levels, or when they're really really stressed and we do something minor. If it's verbal abuse, asian mothers are the pros, but they still love their children (in most cases). I don't believe for a second that the mother in this situation has decided to throw her daughter out because she didn't answer her question.  I believe (though it is only my opinion) that she probably was just very very VERY pissed off, and poof! Out comes the stereotypical asian mother phrase 'You're no longer my daughter'. It can come out over nearly anything, from not washing the dishes, to talking back, to forgetting to bring back groceries. I know because I've heard it. Usually it's nothing a half-hearted apology and time won't remedy, because really, they're just hurt and upset (ironic isn't it?).

As for kicking down the door, I have a feeling, the door wasn't really locked but just closed -- 'kicking down the door' meant throwing it open with a slam whilst angrily shouting. --Now this, in accordance with the original poster has said about her own antecedent behaviour (not answering her mother's question) WILL usually excite this sort of reaction. It's a blatant disregard for filial piety in their opinion, and parents will often blow up over it. Again, a cultural thing.

And most importantly, because while I was an ABA therapist, I seriously considered working in asia, and investigated the cultural issues regarding the treatment of mental disease within Asian countries, primarily Hong Kong, China and Japan. The majority of people in these countries do consider mental disease taboo, mainly because education is not always widely available, and even when it is, the actual culture has considered mental illness to be taboo for many years and you can't wipe that sort of misunderstanding away in a couple of years, or even a decade because the older people who do have this frame of mind are still alive and still believing that mental illness is taboo.

NOW, I am not belittling your experience, but it's probably not the same thing in this situation. True, it still hurts, it's not a lovely phrase. But it is common, and it really isn't that serious in THIS case.
The mother obviously didn't mean it, or the original poster would have been kicked out of the house by now --and the post wouldn't be about the mother's cleaning issues, but more about the fact that their relationship has fallen apart.